Question about something pertaining to the villains of SC (SPOILER for the end of FC)

[SpaceDrake]

WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS HUGE UNMARKED SPOILERS FOR THE END OF FC AND DISCUSSES SPOILER STUFF FOR SC. HERE BE DRAGONS, BE YE WARNED.

So with FC out, SC hopefully on the way, and the games coming out in English, I'm curious about something. At the end of FC, when Weissman and Joshua talk, Weissman titles Joshua as "Enforcer - Legion XIII".

Which, exactly, is being used as the proper term for 執行者? This isn't too clear.

To explain for folks only familiar with the English version: the agents of Ouroboros at Joshua's level are referred to in Japanese as 執行者, "shikkousha", or roughly "one who enforces, executes or performs business"; it's usually used in the business world for a Person Who Does Things. It also carries certain Buddhist connotations about seeking enlightenment. The trick is, this term, like many in the Japanese script for Trails, has furigana above it. Instead of "normal" furigana like most scripts, though, these are in katakana - they're meant to indicate what the characters are "actually" saying in place of a Japanese term (so "orbment" is actually "vector energy controller", for example).

Shikkousha has a term attached to it, as well. That term is Legion. As in, the big unit of a thousand soldiers. Not "Legionnaire". "Legion".

Unlike most of the Falcom-given terms for the Trails setting, this one has always been a bit of a hot chestnut among English-speaking fans because it is extremely "Engrishy" and, unlike a lot of the other terms, doesn't really manage to carry forward the meaning of the intended kanji at all. A few alternatives have been proposed over the years - "Enforcer" among them. (As a sidenote, had Carpe Fulgur gotten the games from the start I'd been kicking around the idea of calling them Paladins, just to get the sort-of-religious connotations across and because calling some of these people "Paladins" would be the most delicious irony.)

I'd been curious to see which term would end up getting used at the end of FC, and it seems like this sort of splits the buck by using both at the same time. So I'm curious, which is going to be the standard term for "shikkousha", Enforcer or Legion? Or is everyone at XSEED still not quite sure on that one?

[Wyrdwad]

It's because of the discrepancy between the original kanji and the furigana, actually, that both terms were used -- it seemed appropriate to use the "game term" Falcom had coined, but at the same time, we didn't want to lose the original meaning.

So I believe "Legion" will be the term used for the rest of the series, since -- like "orbment" -- it's an "official term," of sorts.

That would be my personal recommendation, anyway -- but it's really entirely up in the air. We'll probably just stick with whatever our translator chooses to do with it, provided it flows well from the first game.

-Tom

[SpaceDrake]

Fair enough. For my money I still really dislike "Legion" if only because it's terribly Engrishy - it isn't even the right term for a single person. Good to hear the logic around it either way, though!

[Black_Saber]

I think Legion didn't mean like thousand of soldier, it's also mean an army. Army didn't need to have thousand soldier to become an army too . With one of the Uroboros Legion, they are already fight an army by themself.

Think of it like a clan or guild in MMORPG or sumthin.

[Deuce]

Well, "legion" is also used (in a terribly over-dramatic sense) to refer to many within the one. Usually to someone with DID, but so far as I'm aware, that's not the sort of thing being discussed here, as such an overt Biblical reference wouldn't be appropriate for a high fantasy/steampunk-ish setting in which the Bible doesn't exist, nor any vague analogue of it.

[omgfloofy]

I don't know, Deuce. There are a LOT of terms already pulled in from a few religions left and right for the Septian Church and other 'spiritual matters'. I mean, "rengoku", for example, officially gets the name "Gehenna" attributed to it in 3rd. It's a major term in the series, as well. That's only the beginning of it. Then you get into a lot of the attacks near the end of SC- with six of the final battles attack names even being Shabbat, Inanna, Angel, Cybele, Orbus, and Noaba. (though there are three that I can't put my finger on yet. I've been researching them for awhile now.)

This series has a lot of religious terminology in it, even if it's not in a world that doesn't have the Bible or these religious texts... (though the Septian Church DOES have scriptures- they just haven't been brought into play to a large scale (as of Zero), yet. Though there are quotes here and there in 3rd.)

I wouldn't be surprised if Falcom chose to use words that have significant religious meanings. Especially after the sorts of stuff that the series begins to introduce later on.