What's the best version of Ark of Napishtim? [Archive]

Wyrdwad

05-12-2011, 09:37 PM

General consensus is that the PSP version is indeed the worst, though there's some debate as to whether the PC or PS2 version is the best. My personal vote goes to the PS2 version, but your mileage may vary.

Here's the general breakdown of positives and negatives:

PS2:
+ Full voice-acting. Some say the English voices are bad, but I love them -- and with a cheat code, you can switch to the Japanese voices.
+ Extra content, including the fan-favorite extra character Crevia -- a buxom fairy who wears very little. Which is probably why she's a fan-favorite. ;)
+ Official translation by Konami -- and a really good one, too!
- All 2D character sprites have been replaced with realistically-proportioned 3D character models, and this CANNOT be changed.
+ The upside of that, though, is that ALL armor adjustments are visible on Adol in this version of the game, and ONLY this version of the game.
- The opening and ending anime cutscenes have been completely replaced with newly-created (and newly-scored) CG cutscenes.
+ BUT, the originals can be viewed by entering a cheat code.
- Graphics resolution is lower compared to PC (but higher than on PSP, obviously).
- Supposedly, jumping has a split-second delay in this version (though I've never personally noticed that).

PC:
+ Supports super high-res graphics.
+ Original 2D character sprites...
- ...but without the armor changes from the PS2 version.
- Only available in Japanese. Can only be played in English with an unofficial translation patch, and installing the patch is apparently a bit of a hassle.
- No extra content, no Crevia.
- No voice-acting.

And the PSP version is renowned for its super-long load times, extremely low/inconsistent framerate, lo-res textures and tinny audio conversion. Same translation as the PS2 version, but with no voice-acting. DOES use the original sprites and anime movies, though, and has its own unique extra content (though sans Crevia). (:

-Tom

Ryos

05-12-2011, 09:42 PM

I'd say the PS2 version is the best overall. By the way, there IS a code to see the anime movies in the PS2 version as well (and they ARE much nicer than the CG stuff).

MP83

05-12-2011, 11:29 PM

PS2:
+ Full voice-acting. Some say the English voices are bad, but I love them -- and with a cheat code, you can switch to the Japanese voices.
I just want to clarify that you can't switch the voices in the PAL version. You're stucked with English.

nunuu

05-13-2011, 02:36 AM

- Only available in Japanese. Can only be played in English with an unofficial translation patch, and installing the patch is apparently a bit of a hassle.

There were issues with the patch installation? :o The only hassle I recall was my stupidity in not reading before downloading the correct patch version. XD

Wyrdwad

05-13-2011, 04:08 AM

That's the part I was referring to. I've seen people get HOPELESSLY confused because of that, so I figured I'd point it out.

...Plus, I thought it only appropriate for me to suggest supporting an officially-licensed, officially-released game, rather than a fan-translation. After all, if you can find and buy a new copy of Ark of Napishtim on PS2 (and I'm pretty sure there ARE still some out there!), then both Falcom AND Konami get money. If you just buy the PC version and patch it, though, then ONLY Falcom gets money. And Konami did such a great job with Napishtim, I'd really like to see them get their fair cut, y'know? (:

-Tom

Deuce

05-13-2011, 06:40 AM

Note: Konami and Falcom only see revenue from purchase of PS2/PS2 release if you purchase a NEW copy from a licensed retailer. eBay sellers are extremely unlikely to meet that particular criterion.

And the quality of Konami's port is dubious, at best. I don't share the complaints that many do... the CG opening does a decent job of filling in some blanks that were previously only revealed in an untranslated comic-lite in the PC version's instruction manual. I didn't like ANY of the voice acting, to be perfectly honest, English or Japanese. The 3D models instead of the pre-rendered 3D sprites were simply going with one of the system's strengths... and they were based upon Falcom's original models and animations to begin with, so I find these complaints to be utterly baseless.

However, there are some serious technical issues with the PS2 port. Primarily, the framerate is pitiful for a mid-generation PS2 title with rather modest graphics. It looks like it tops out at 20fps, and usually hovers around 15fps. Occasionally, it will dip into the single-digits, and in the added trials, you'll notice some disgusting slowdown. The more immediately obnoxious issue, however, is the muddy and low-resolution textures found throughout the game. It's like looking back into an old Nintendo 64 game. Even the large character portraits show signs of obvious stretching to fit the desired space (save for Crevia, curiously enough).

To put it quite simply, the PS2 port is worth having because it's worth supporting a legitimate English Ys release. But as far as the quality of the game itself goes, you really won't do better than the PC version, and the meager added content in the port does not offset the sharp drop in performance and appearance you'll get in return.

fedaykin

05-13-2011, 07:18 AM

Thank you for the detailed information.

I am irritated that one can't listen to the Japanese voices with the PS2 PAL version; why would Konami take them out if they left them in for the US release? Us EU gamers always seem to get shafted, though I suppose I should be grateful that we even got the game in the first place. I would love Konami if they had Japanese and English voices and then a selection of EU subs. Japanese voices with French subs please? A man can dream... :)

Having said that, I imagine that muting the game and going on a rampage while listening to YS Chronicles OST is often a perfectly viable strategic decision. Actually, when is that not a good decision when playing any game?

Deuce gave me some food for thought with the framerate, but personally graphics don't matter too much to me if it's done with style, (I still think Chrono Trigger looks quite good) or if they're overshadowed by engrossing gameplay. Long story short, a new PS2 version is winging it's way towards me. There's nothing stopping me checking out the PC version to compare afterwards if my glasses are still addicted to Adol wrecking stuff.

Thanks again, I'm looking forward to some great boss fights in 3D. ;)

Ryos

05-13-2011, 07:39 AM

By the way, there is a code to see the game in 2D sprite mode as well, if you prefer that to the 3D (which doesn't look great). At least Konami didn't yank that from the PAL version. It's still lower res than the PC version, but that does help even up the odds more in the PS2 version's favor.

fedaykin

05-13-2011, 08:11 AM

Yeah, I can see myself experimenting with the codes a bit. I'm sure it will be fun anyway. There remains just the minor detail of doing all my exams first. :)

Wyrdwad

05-13-2011, 04:15 PM

Ryos

05-13-2011, 08:35 PM

There is?! I was under the impression that that's the one code that DIDN'T exist in ANY version of PS2 Napishtim...

-Tom

Hmm, I stand corrected. I guess my memory was misleading me because the classic mode doesn't do that. It just removes the terrible PS1-era CG movies. Ah well. :(

reyvard

05-14-2011, 03:39 PM

I remember now I've seen new trials on the psp version it's " mini game " where you can get emel stones and other things , this don't exist in ps2 version but even without this the game is still good

fedaykin

05-30-2011, 07:55 AM

Exams done. Phone turned off. Curtains drawn. Voices muted (no offense, English voice actors). The PS2 Ark of Napishtim marathon begins at last!

Chaosblade

05-30-2011, 10:41 AM

I guess I'm picking up the PSP version soon. Gamestop has it for $8, it better be complete with a case/manual.

What kind of framerate issues does the PSP game have? I know the slim PSPs should fare better on the loading thanks to UMD caching, but hopefully the framerate doesn't dip too low too often.

Wyrdwad

05-30-2011, 04:53 PM

It's basically whenever there's a lot happening on the screen, the framerate gets super-choppy -- like the slowdown issues of old. (: It's annoying, but bearable.

And Fedaykin: So sad to hear that you're turning off the voices. :( I really love the voice-acting in Napishtim! But, the gameplay is really the important part... so do what you have to do, I guess. (:

-Tom

Chaosblade

05-30-2011, 10:23 PM

Got the PSP game. They didn't have the case or anything (blargh), but it was $8. So I ordered some PSP cases and printed myself a cover. (Turned out terrible though, I might be low on ink. Will probably reprint later).

These Gamestop UMD cases are terrible by the way. I already broke one of the little clips that hold the game in when I took out. Official ones are a magnitude more sturdy.

Deuce

05-31-2011, 11:54 AM

Voices muted (no offense, English voice actors).

Amen. I couldn't stand either set. The Japanese ones simply didn't fit the characters, and most of the English ones were just bad. There was very little Konami did on the title that wasn't lazy.

fedaykin

05-31-2011, 01:22 PM

On the other hand, it's not like I bought the game because I was looking forward to the first-rate acting and sharp script. :)

I just had an awesome series of battles against Orjugan. I kept getting completely destroyed, but eventually started to understand the (admittedly not very complicated) fight. That process of mastery followed by the sense of triumph is what Ys is all about in my opinion.

Wyrdwad

05-31-2011, 04:16 PM

Deuce: You have to admit, if nothing else, that Konami did an excellent job with the overall translation. It's my understanding that they even consulted with fans to ensure that all of their nomenclature was consistent with series legacy. That doesn't sound very lazy to me!

In fact, very little of what they did comes across as "lazy." They remade the intro and ending FMV, designed all new 3D character models for EVERY NPC IN THE GAME, recorded voices for EVERY LINE OF DIALOGUE... that takes a LOT of effort, you know!

I think "lazy" may not have been the word you were looking for. (:

-Tom

Deuce

05-31-2011, 06:13 PM

Fine. "Sloppy" works better.

Ryos

05-31-2011, 09:13 PM

These Gamestop UMD cases are terrible by the way. I already broke one of the little clips that hold the game in when I took out. Official ones are a magnitude more sturdy.

One of the old tricks I use is to make them replace a case since they have a bunch in stock. They're still terrible cases, but my theory is if the case won't hold the game, it's up to Gamestop to give me a case that does. I found their UMD cases are the worst of the lot. Don't know if they had difficulty duplicating the official pattern or what but a good 70% of the cases I've had either won't hold the UMD or one of the clips breaks.

fedaykin

06-01-2011, 10:48 AM

Ernst was an enjoyable duel, if about what I expected, but the last boss took me completely by surprise. We seem to have left the Ys Universe and entered a psychedelic disco simulator. ;)

Overall, I enjoyed Ys 6 less than Oath and Seven, but it was still quite compelling and more than challenging enough for a man of my limited action skills (bacon dash jump). I also approve of random disco, mystic bosses and think that more games should have them.

That sounds like a forum thread actually! Ameno-Sagiro from Persona 4 is the only other absurdly trippy intervention that comes to my mind at the moment, but no doubt the Ark of Napishtim is only a single thread of a vast LSD-fueled tapestry of pain in RPGs.

Chaosblade

06-01-2011, 01:30 PM

One of the old tricks I use is to make them replace a case since they have a bunch in stock. They're still terrible cases, but my theory is if the case won't hold the game, it's up to Gamestop to give me a case that does. I found their UMD cases are the worst of the lot. Don't know if they had difficulty duplicating the official pattern or what but a good 70% of the cases I've had either won't hold the UMD or one of the clips breaks.

I planned to order the cases regardless of the quality of the Gamestop one. I am far too OCD when it comes to this kind of stuff, I've bought official cases for GCN games, GBA and DS games, 360 games... now I'll have PSP cases too. Printed a bunch of covers too to replace Greatest Hits types and for my GBA cases. And now my Ark of Napishtim case too, but it's all grainy even though the original is the right resolution and color, so I'll try it again when I get more ink.

Deuce

06-01-2011, 02:57 PM

Personally, I hated the final boss of Ys VI. Very anti-climactic, and the music was particularly awful (as was that of the Galba-Loa fight). It struck me as so dull and uninspired that I was surprised to see it in an Ys game.

In retrospect, Ys VI is one of my least favorites of the series. Most of the music is pretty bad (even when the composition is decent), there's far too much backtracking to be done and most of the level design isn't nearly up to par with the other games.

fedaykin

06-01-2011, 03:19 PM

I can't argue with any of those points, Deuce, but I did find that the final boss had a certain charm in its own way. Fighting yet another winged bishie with a sword is certainly uninspired and, in that sense, trying to stop a demented weather machine/disco simulator that attacks you with laser strobe lighting was sort of original and amusing.

I concur that the Ark was anticlimactic, mainly on account of the final fight being so impersonal, but also because of the encounter design. Noob as I am, I only played on normal but the boss just didn't seem to be in a hurry to kill you at any point. The first phase, just circling round the lightshow and hitting orbs, didn't even feel like a boss fight. Comparing the "fight" to any of the other final boss fights I've played in the Ys series is, indeed, incredibly unflattering, but I give them a grudging acknowledgement of at least being a bit weird. So yes, I thought it was a bit crap compared to the excitement and tension of, say, Ys 7's Root ( my personal favourite final boss), but the absurdity of it all at least made me smile.

How did you feel about the Ernst battle, may I ask? I felt that the chaos of his rapid attacks and the fairies flying all over the place (plus his OST of course!) was worthy of an endgame Ys boss, even if he only has 1 phase. Of course, as my Oath in Felghana manual always helpfully reassures me, "maybe I just suck". :)

Wyrdwad

06-01-2011, 04:23 PM

Personally, I hated the final boss of Ys VI. Very anti-climactic, and the music was particularly awful (as was that of the Galba-Loa fight). It struck me as so dull and uninspired that I was surprised to see it in an Ys game.

Oh, it is ON, man! ;) "The Depth Napishtim" is my absolute #1 favorite Ys final battle theme, and one of my favorite pieces of Ys music of all time, topped ONLY by "Seal of Time" from Ys III/Felghana. It's a complex and amazingly well-composed piece of music that fits not only the mood of the fight, but the intensity of what the fight represents.

The sheer depth of things we disagree on never ceases to amaze me. (:

-Tom

Deuce

06-01-2011, 04:58 PM

Oh, it is ON, man! ;) "The Depth Napishtim" is my absolute #1 favorite Ys final battle theme, and one of my favorite pieces of Ys music of all time, topped ONLY by "Seal of Time" from Ys III/Felghana.
Two things.
1) "Seal of Time" is a lazy, obsessively literal and uninspired translation. Not your fault, as it's been out there for years. But it still sucks.
2) The Depth Napishtim may be perfectly fine music, on a technical level (though NOT on a production level... VI's soundtrack was played through a lousy synth, and it shows). But it's not Ys music, and in an Ys game, that's not okay.

The sheer depth of things we disagree on never ceases to amaze me. (:
I'm still waiting for the day that it comes down to pistols at ten paces.

Wyrdwad

06-01-2011, 06:46 PM

Disagreed on all counts. (: Seal of Time is literal, yes, but it also SOUNDS GOOD, and gets across the general idea of the original track title perfectly.

Also, The Depth Napishtim's synth (and Ys VI's synth in general) is part of its charm, and honestly, no song on that entire soundtrack would be anywhere near as good without it. There's a certain indefinable quality to it that really enhances the mood of each track, and I really respect Falcom for what is essentially a bit of experimentation on their part. It's not thrashing metal like most Ys soundtracks (with a few exceptions, obviously), but it's still every bit an Ys soundtrack in terms of its intensity and mood, and that song is still every bit an Ys final battle theme -- just as much as The Strongest Foe or Termination.

Ys VI's soundtrack is actually a bit of an oddity for me, as aside from a few tracks here and there (including The Depth Napishtim), I'm not a huge fan of it either... yet somehow, I find it to be the most "listenable" of all the Ys soundtracks. While every Ys game has amazing music, and it's always a pleasure to hear in-game, I have to be in the right mood to listen to it OUTSIDE of the game... whereas with Ys VI's soundtrack, I could listen to that music anytime, no matter WHAT mood I'm in. It's actually my go-to music for when I'm at work after a bout of insomnia, and need something to keep me awake and alert. (:

-Tom

Deuce

06-02-2011, 12:47 PM

Disagreed on all counts. (: Seal of Time is literal, yes, but it also SOUNDS GOOD, and gets across the general idea of the original track title perfectly.
There's the issue. I'd honestly go so far as to say that it could only sound good to the uninitiated. 封印 is one of those words that really only has one word to translate to, which means that amateur translators (such as those who came up with Ys III and IV's long-standing English track names) use that and absolutely nothing else. No interpretation, no thought of what it might mean beyond the purely literal sense of the word itself... meaning no context. 時 is also an adverbial noun, so when followed by の, odds are that it's meant to modify the verb that follows it. That verb would have to be 封印. So, rather than "Seal of Time," it would mean that time is somehow being sealed away in time. This is how I came up with "Frozen in Time," and why I still use it. It's the same kind of situation that explains why 偉大なる試練 is "[A] Great Ordeal," and not "The Ordeal Becomes Great."

The Depth Napishtim's synth (and Ys VI's synth in general) is part of its charm, and honestly, no song on that entire soundtrack would be anywhere near as good without it.
I could not disagree any more strongly without resorting to personal insults. As a long-standing electronic music fan and synth enthusiast, I can tell you that Ark's synth was not even remotely near the cutting edge that was available in 2003, even in software synths, to say nothing of hardware. I could see your point if you were talking about the Ys I & II Eternal/Complete soundtracks... as those were literally just played through a Roland SC-55 with a very small touch of post-production added. Ys VI's synth quality is, quite simply, under par. Falcom was producing better-sounding audio, literally a decade earlier. I couldn't pinpoint exactly what kind of synths were being used (though I know a couple of guys who might). I can, however, tell the difference between good and bad synths, particularly of the PCM wavetable variety.

To clarify, I'm not talking about the musical style. This is purely a technical issue I have with the music. The series had lain dormant for eight years, and personally, I was stoked by the trailer. Mighty Obstacle got me excited. Sadly, the end result only had three tracks that I felt were really worthy of the series' musical legacy.

There's a certain indefinable quality to it that really enhances the mood of each track, and I really respect Falcom for what is essentially a bit of experimentation on their part.
I call bullbacon. They did experimentation on Ys V, and got soundly trashed for it. This was simply a cheap synth. I get that you like it, and that's cool... I wish I enjoyed it like you do, and I actually like the cheap guitar sample in Mighty Obstacle. However, I think you're being a bit of an apologist for a badly cut corner.

Wyrdwad

06-02-2011, 04:54 PM

I may be a lot of things... but I'm not someone who lets people off the hook that easily just because I like what they're done in the past.

No, I genuinely think the synth in Ys VI is GOOD. Maybe not technically... but I couldn't care less about its technical merits. All I care about is the way it sounds. As long as it's aesthetically pleasing, and meshes well with its environment, I consider it a success. And on both counts, I find Ys VI's music exceptional.

As for "Seal of Time" versus "Frozen in Time"... I guess it's all a matter of personal preference and interpretation. "Frozen in Time" implies that time has stopped -- that something is as it always was. I don't believe that's what 時の封印 is meant to imply (though I agree, it's a perfectly valid translation, and I can definitely see EXACTLY where you're coming from).

My interpretation is that it's referring to time, itself, as a means of sealing away something big -- which is pretty much exactly what's happening in the game. An object representing time -- the clock tower -- serves as the final seal for an ancient evil. Thus, the clock tower is literally a "seal of time."

I also think Seal of Time simply SOUNDS better -- and more epic -- than Frozen In Time... but that's just personal preference. (: Either way, it's a kickass track!

-Tom

fedaykin

06-03-2011, 08:46 AM

What about "Mighty Obstacle"? Isn't that very traditional, Ys music at its finest? I know bacon all about music, but this track seems to me worthy to stand alongside most Ys boss tracks. I'm certainly ready to pick myself up off the game over screen and wear my thumbs out whenever I listen to it anyway. ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DfzxdyfRO4&feature=feedf

Deuce

06-03-2011, 12:53 PM

Mighty Obstacle, Release of the Far West Ocean and Ernst were the only standout tracks.

Deuce

06-03-2011, 05:12 PM

No, I genuinely think the synth in Ys VI is GOOD. Maybe not technically... but I couldn't care less about its technical merits. All I care about is the way it sounds. As long as it's aesthetically pleasing, and meshes well with its environment, I consider it a success. And on both counts, I find Ys VI's music exceptional.
Well, compositionally, I don't have any real issue with it... though I do think several tracks are just plain dull. Some, like Windslash Steps, would be greatly improved by a re-arrangement to play to the composition's strengths. But you'll have a devil of a time convincing me that the existing recording is really acceptable. I mean, we've all heard various other Ys arrangements from the 90s. The tech that made Tomohiko Kishimoto's arrangements sound so good is still there. Unless there was a budget shortfall (which is entirely plausible), it just makes no sense to me.

Most of Ark's OST sounds like it's being played through one synth, in realtime, with no post-production. Probably a Roland or a Korg, given their previous predilections. But MIDI, itself, doesn't "sound" like anything, in and of itself. It's simply digital data that tells a synth what notes to play, how long to hold them, at what velocity, etc. The actual sound module/software used to create the sound is what makes the difference (which is why we have things like the Orchestral Cube). You can take a fantastically well-made MIDI file and play it through an old Sound Blaster, and it'll still sound like well-made crap. I have a Roland SD-50 sound module, though, and it can do a remarkably nicer job with the exact same source file. I may be talking in technical terms, but when it comes to synthesizers, particularly digital ones, "technically inferior" also means "sonically inferior." When dealing with PCM audio, usually in the form of lower-quality samples, which Ys VI has in spades.

To wit: this is Falcom, and I expect better. There were games on the PSX, using the system's native PCM wavetable support, that had better audio (ie. Xenogears and Vagrant Story). When you're pre-recording the music and just playing it back as ADPCM, there's really no excuse for sloppy production.

"Frozen in Time" implies that time has stopped -- that something is as it always was.
Not really where I was going with it.

I also think Seal of Time simply SOUNDS better -- and more epic -- than Frozen In Time... but that's just personal preference. (: Either way, it's a kickass track!
Well, it's one of the few that I think Oath genuinely improved upon over the TurboCD version. Also, you lose two internets for using "epic" to describe something other than scale. I can sum up my complaint with "Seal of Time" like so: unless you're using "seal" as a verb, it's always going to call to mind a certain aquatic mammal, well before any implications of its verb form. I sincerely doubt I'm alone in that. I regard it (as well as "Beat of Destruction"/"Drumbeat of Doom") about as poorly as "Temptation of the Douka Master."

Lumina

06-05-2011, 10:30 PM

I'd just like to chime in and say that I think the technical issues people bring up regarding the PSP version could be extremely blown out of proportion depending on what version of the PSP you have. The overall loading times and slow down running it on a 3000 are miles better than running it on a 1000 due to the capability to UMD cache, so honestly, YMMV depending on what PSP you have.

Personally I've played both the PS2 and the PSP version and I greatly prefer the PSP version. It's portable, you don't have to watch the ugly CG nor listen to the terrible voice acting, and I love me some sprites!

When you start a playthrough, wouldn't you much rather be greeted by this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-NJdCGBj2g
instead of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jsHWrmlqqY

Also, to showcase the difference in loading times with UMD caching:
No UMD Caching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjkGo3SMbYY
With Caching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pa-Siu2kZA

Wyrdwad

06-06-2011, 02:29 AM

When you start a playthrough, wouldn't you much rather be greeted by this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-NJdCGBj2g
instead of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jsHWrmlqqY

You actually can be in the PS2 version as well, if you enter a cheat code to play the original Japanese movies instead of the new CG versions.

Also, since I missed it earlier:

To wit: this is Falcom, and I expect better. There were games on the PSX, using the system's native PCM wavetable support, that had better audio (ie. Xenogears and Vagrant Story). When you're pre-recording the music and just playing it back as ADPCM, there's really no excuse for sloppy production.

One man's sloppy is another's sublime. What you consider bad/cheap production, I consider a stylistic choice on Falcom's part -- and one that I agree with wholeheartedly. You used Windslash Steps as an example, and honestly, I can't imagine that song with any other synth, nor do I think it would sound anywhere near as good, as it was clearly written with THAT synth in mind.

And no, the Songs of Zemeth R&B track isn't superior. Not to me, anyway. ;)

-Tom

Deuce

06-06-2011, 02:05 PM

What you consider bad/cheap production, I consider a stylistic choice on Falcom's part
You're speculating. I'm talking in terms of equipment and sound quality, which is both quantifiable and measurable. Stylistic choice is an abstract. You may like how it sounds as is, but that doesn't make it not "low-quality synth."

nor do I think it would sound anywhere near as good, as it was clearly written with THAT synth in mind.
Now, you're just being difficult. Ys I-III's music was all written with the PC-8801's synth in mind. By your last statement, may I then assume that you eschew all other, subsequent arrangements? If not, then you're being logically inconsistent, at best. It is human nature to prefer the first version of any given piece of music that we hear, but don't trick yourself into thinking it could never be done better.

And as an aside, I didn't like Songs of Zemeth. While it was better than the OST in terms of production, vocal arrangements are usually just unpleasant to listen to, regardless of language. You might as well put on the original Star Trek theme, with the lyrics.

Wyrdwad

06-06-2011, 04:11 PM

Nothing wrong with the original Star Trek theme. Lyrics might spice it up, too. ;)

And I liked the metal tracks on Songs of Zemeth A LOT, actually -- though I wasn't too fond of the rest of the album.

Anyway, I think we just need to agree to disagree on this one. When it comes down to it, the technical merits of a game's synth are absolutely 100% irrelevant to me. I don't care if they're low-quality or high-quality or anything else -- all I care about is how they sound. And in Napishtim's case, they sound DAMN GOOD to me. ;)

-Tom

Deuce

06-06-2011, 04:30 PM

Nothing wrong with the original Star Trek theme. Lyrics might spice it up, too. ;)
Sadly, I'm not kidding. It was written with lyrics. Do a bit of searching on Youtube and I'm sure you'll find it. Don't say I didn't warn you.

And I liked the metal tracks on Songs of Zemeth A LOT, actually -- though I wasn't too fond of the rest of the album.
They were okay, but I'd rather they kept them instrumental with a lead line, rather than the vocal tracks.

Anyway, I think we just need to agree to disagree on this one. When it comes down to it, the technical merits of a game's synth are absolutely 100% irrelevant to me.
Fair enough, though you're rather nimbly dodging the question regarding the original soundtracks of Ys I-III.

Desu

06-06-2011, 05:16 PM

Us EU gamers always seem to get shafted, though I suppose I should be grateful that we even got the game in the first place.

You're also lucky to be getting Xenoblade and (possibly) Last Story.
I pray Nintendo won't shaft us with those.

Wyrdwad

06-06-2011, 08:58 PM

Fair enough, though you're rather nimbly dodging the question regarding the original soundtracks of Ys I-III.

Not really. With Ys I-III, the soundtracks were originally composed on hardware with limited sound capability. In other words, they didn't sound the way they did by choice, but by necessity. So it stands to reason that when the games got remade, the music would be as well.

With Ys VI, there WERE no limitations. Falcom could've used all live performances if they wanted. Instead, they used the synth we've all come to know (and, in my case, love!). ;) So the way I see it, that synth was used BY CHOICE, because Falcom felt it fit the general atmosphere of the game and sounded good.

Even if that weren't the case, though, *I* sure think it fits the general atmosphere of the game and sounds good... and I honestly can't imagine those tracks being performed with different synth. I just don't think it would be anywhere near as good!

Just because I feel that way about Ys VI, however, does NOT immediately imply that I feel the same way about every game in the series. The only other Ys title for which I feel the soundtrack has been "perfected" is Oath in Felghana, as I cannot even conceive of an improvement upon that music.

-Tom

Chaosblade

06-13-2011, 02:12 PM

I thought the Chronicles soundtrack was extremely well done and would be difficult to improve on. Especially for Ys II.

I haven't played Ark just yet but I've heard some of the music and I can safely say I don't like the sound much either. The bonus track version of Ernst (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8Xfr0kYvAE) sounds significantly better than the in-game version to me, for example. And there are a ton of Mighty Obstacle mixes I like a lot more than the original, including some from Falcom (it really is a shame about the lyrics in the Songs of Zemeth version, a violin/keyboard combo would have been a lot better).

Anyway, I'm not sure if I want to jump into this game right away or play a few other games first. Three of the last four games I've played have been Ys after all (four of five if you count Chronicles separately).

Wyrdwad

06-13-2011, 04:43 PM

Napishtim will probably be a bit disappointing if you've already played Felghana (since it uses the same engine, but doesn't do as much with it), so you might be better off waiting a bit indeed... but definitely do give it a try at some point, as it really is a very worthwhile game. And I swear, the soundtrack WILL grow on you. (:

-Tom

Chaosblade

06-13-2011, 05:37 PM

Will definitely play it at some point. Probably going to hit up a short game first then tackle Tales of Vesperia. Then I'll play it. Got some PSP cases and my cover fixed so it looks right on my shelf now.

http://i.imgur.com/hZOIP.jpg

I thought something was off about that UMD shell too, apparently it's a replacement one. Better not be anything wrong with the game...

Also, somebody tell me I'm not the only one on this forum crazy enough to do that. Anybody?

Wyrdwad

06-13-2011, 07:27 PM

Oh, believe me, I've done that many a time. You are not alone. (:

-Tom

Chaosblade

06-18-2011, 02:17 AM

Ha, Groupon is giving away the PC version of this game now like they did Origin (for now, not sure how much longer)! Grabbing that and can get the best of both worlds, I have my physical copy on PSP and the superior PC version of the game.

lopez

06-23-2011, 04:41 PM

I've played both the PS2 and PSP versions and I've got to say, the PS2 version is the way to go.

I prefer playing handheld games (b/c I'm always on the go), but I couldn't stand the PSP version. Wyrd nailed all the drawbacks in his initial post. Aside from the lengthy load times and low res graphics, the major drawback for me was the lack of the CG graphics and the voice acting (even if some characters were truly atrocious).

Peytral

06-23-2011, 05:30 PM

Wyrd's and Deuce's argument was so interesting that I actually read the whole thread. Wow.

fedaykin

08-09-2011, 08:23 PM

In case anyone's faced with the same choice that I was, I'd like to add one final reflection concerning the synergy between the title's replay value and its portability. Specifically, having beaten the main game, the only reason I come back is to dip into the boss fights on different difficulty modes. I happen to think that the boss time attacks are a particular attractive feature on a portable system. I'll often do a couple of Oath in Felghana or Ys 7 (no inherent boss rush, but I left a trail of saves) bosses, when I have 10 minutes to kill somewhere. (One day, Inferno Galbalan, one day!) Obviously, there's nothing stopping you doing that on the PS2 or PC if you're so inclined, but I just thought it was a cogent obversation.

Chaosblade

08-14-2011, 10:55 AM

This seems to be the most relevant thread, but can you beat Geis when you run into him toward the beginning of the game? Had a pretty close fight with him but at the end he blocked like four attacks in a row (0,0,0,0! GRR!) and finished me off.

Edit: Dash Jump? Ha! Some people seem to hate getting the Capla water in the ruins, but I didn't have any trouble once I realized I could do it without the dash jump.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgqltkPVWm4

Lumina

08-14-2011, 04:45 PM

You mean the first time you meet him?

I can't recall my exact tactics, but yes it is possible to beat him.

I seem to recall a lot of jumping, but it's been a while now.

Chaosblade

08-14-2011, 04:59 PM

Ryos

08-14-2011, 06:30 PM

Wonder what was up with the blocked attacks then. He didn't block anything up until he had less than 10HP left, then suddenly I couldn't damage him anymore. Oh well, that loss doesn't make any difference I guess.

Bad luck probably. I do know that when he gets close to losing, his strategy changes up and makes it that much more complicated. Given your reward for beating him, I wouldn't sweat it. More or less what you have to do is hit him when he's open after an attack series and never get hit (which unless you're an Ys expert is easier said than done).

Wyrdwad

08-14-2011, 08:05 PM

Edit: Dash Jump? Ha! Some people seem to hate getting the Capla water in the ruins, but I didn't have any trouble once I realized I could do it without the dash jump.

Not sure that particular strategy works in the PS2 version, sadly.

-Tom

reyvard

08-14-2011, 08:27 PM

it works but slash attack are effective too , just wait the good time !

hell-dew

09-14-2011, 03:37 AM

im with wyrd on this one i rather liked the English voices they added a LOT to the game. when certain end games bosses give their speech it makes the fight just that much more epic. sure there are a few voices that were horrible but there were a lot of great ones to. IMO the English voices are fine.

sanddeamon

09-14-2011, 07:02 PM

i find it hard to decide which might be better, i encountered few set backs on psp and ps2 version [ not sure how, i ended up with both versions :s] nevertheless,music and bosses etc are still fun, when game behaves :P

Rebel40000

09-21-2011, 02:13 AM

Ryos

09-21-2011, 08:02 AM

I recently started playing Ys VI on PS2 again, this time on my new HDTV. I knew the game wasn't gonna look pretty on it, but oh man did the character portraits take a surprisingly huge hit in quality. It looks really bad. :x

Yep, the vast majority of PS2 games look awful on an HDTV. If you have the setup/capabilities, you might want to see if an emulator will turn up better results for you. I've mentioned this before, but the PS2 has mysteriously aged a lot worse than other SD systems (the Cube and Dreamcast both look better on HDTV - heck, the N64 looks about the same as the PS2 in terms of graphical drops).

Chaosblade

09-21-2011, 01:52 PM

Yep, the vast majority of PS2 games look awful on an HDTV. If you have the setup/capabilities, you might want to see if an emulator will turn up better results for you. I've mentioned this before, but the PS2 has mysteriously aged a lot worse than other SD systems (the Cube and Dreamcast both look better on HDTV - heck, the N64 looks about the same as the PS2 in terms of graphical drops).

Precisely why I intend to play as many of my PS2 games as possible with PCSX2 once I upgrade my PC. Why bother when these silly HD Remasters when I can do better on my own ;D Although the Ico/SotC one looks really nice since it fixes some of the issues like the framerate (SotC) and awful PS1 textures (Ico).