Questions about Ys I & II Chronicles

[onmode-ky]

I have a question about each of Ys I and Ys II, to which I have not been able to find the answers:

### Minor Spoilers Ahead ###

Ys I: What triggers it when you enter Minea and find either Fana or Archelle standing still in front of the seated-as-usual Reah (with Fana/Archelle saying different dialogue from normal)? It it just random, based on a probability distribution, or are there specific conditions that will result in that happening? Also, are there other characters who can do that? And, did Falcom ever release a Janken and Word Games with Reah! game? Okay, that last one's facetious . . . but possibly commercially viable in Japan.

Ys II: Is it possible to fight Velagunder (with a chance of winning) before Adol reaches Level 5? To get magic, you have to beat the stone guys guarding the rod, but they don't take damage unless your Strength is at least either 29 or 30 (at Level 6, with a short sword, Adol's Strength is 30, and he can do it; at Level 7, with no weapons, Adol's Strength is 28, and he can't hurt them). It's doable at Level 5 if you buy and equip a long sword (Strength 32). Level 4 with a long sword would be Strength 29 . . . but you can't get enough money to buy a long sword without also earning so much experience as to become Level 5. Is there some way to get money at the beginning of the game other than the (insufficient) 300G from the doctor's brother?

Incidentally, Leggs won't tell you to fight the stone guys unless you're Level 6, even if your Strength is high enough.

onmode-ky

[PurpleDoom]

Can't answer your Ys I question, but what I did for Ys II was get all of the various tomes from within the dungeon and then went back up to unlock Fire - you'll almost certainly be Level 5 by then.

[onmode-ky]

Thanks, but I think you misunderstood my question. I want to know if it's possible to get fire magic (namely, if it's possible to beat the stone golem guards at the Rod) before Level 5. The difficulty in testing this is that you end up hitting Level 5 just trying to generate 1000G for the long sword (which you would definitely need to beat the Rod guards). Here's the breakdown of highest money-to-experience ratio I could think of while trying to get 700G on top of the 300G from the doctor's brother (note that experience earned per defeated enemy changes as you level up, dependent on type of enemy):

Lv1: 5 cauctions = 50G, 50exp (both cauctions and chraces are 10exp each here, but cauctions yield more G)
Lv2: 10 chraces = 80G, 50exp (chraces drop to 5exp each here)
Lv3: 20 chraces = 160G, 100exp (still 5exp per chrace)
Lv4: 50 chraces = 400G, 100exp (drop to 2exp per chrace)

Sum with the 300G gift = 990G. So, you're 10G short of enough money for a long sword, and you're already at Level 5 (not even counting the experience points that will come from beating one of the Rod guards). Thus, at minimum, you're Level 5 when fighting Velagunder, based on this scenario.

So, the specific question becomes: is it possible to get more money at the very beginning of the game somehow? As far as I can tell, there are no treasure chests with money in the mine, and there's no one you can sell stuff to.

onmode-ky

[PurpleDoom]

Ahh. I wouldn't know that for sure either, though I'd hazard a guess at "no".

[Wyrdwad]

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure if this is possible, but I would also assume the answer to be no.

Maybe on a higher difficulty, where you gain less experience?

-Tom

[onmode-ky]

At least for cauctions and chraces, the experience and gold amounts (and progressions through level-ups) are the same across Normal, Hard, and Nightmare. And any other enemies are either invincible at Levels 1-4 or have significantly poorer money-to-experience yields at those levels.

I guess it's not possible. Heck, even if it were possible to have a Level 4 Adol equipped with a long sword, it seems unlikely that Strength 29 would be the lower bound for damaging one of the stone Rod guards, 30 being a much "nicer" number.

Thanks to both of you. Anyone have any comments on my Ys I question?

onmode-ky

P.S. How do you pronounce "cauction" and "chrace," anyway? How are they written in katakana?

[Wyrdwad]

No idea on your Ys I question either, I'm afraid. I *think* it depends either on how far you've advanced the plot, or what items you have in your inventory (if you have the Silver Harmonica, for example, Reah will ALWAYS be up on the ramparts)... but it may simply be random chance! It's not something I ever really thought about. The only way to find out, I guess... would be to experiment! (:


P.S. How do you pronounce "cauction" and "chrace," anyway? How are they written in katakana?

Chrace is クレイス, and Cauction is カークシャン. So a hard K sound on Chrace (something like "krayce," rhymes with "grace"), and... "Cauction" is, pretty much, the word "caution" with an extra "k" sound in the middle. ;)

-Tom

[Black_Saber]

since this thread is about question, i would like to ask a question also.

I found a minor issue about typo.

This issue occurs in YS I --> Book of Ys : Volume Hadal.

Text "even the fair land of Celceta became 'as' ash". Is the 'as' there supposed to be 'an' ? Or it was intended to be 'as' ?

[MP83]

So, the specific question becomes: is it possible to get more money at the very beginning of the game somehow? As far as I can tell, there are no treasure chests with money in the mine, and there's no one you can sell stuff to.
There's a way to earn 500G once: Find Brody in Lance Village and give him some items (apples, flowers, etc.) until he starts talking about ducks' eating habits. Once that's done, you can visit the ducks in Lance Village and collect 500G from them.

[Wyrdwad]

Text "even the fair land of Celceta became 'as' ash". Is the 'as' there supposed to be 'an' ? Or it was intended to be 'as' ?

That line is correct as-is. It's "You shall be as ash" in the sense of, "You shall be like ash," or "You shall be akin to ash." Sort of an archaic and more dramatic way of phrasing the line.

-Tom

[Black_Saber]

That line is correct as-is. It's "You shall be as ash" in the sense of, "You shall be like ash," or "You shall be akin to ash." Sort of an archaic and more dramatic way of phrasing the line.

-Tom

I see... thanks for the confirmation :D

Will be coming back here if I found another things to be questioned :D

[onmode-ky]

No idea on your Ys I question either, I'm afraid. I *think* it depends either on how far you've advanced the plot, or what items you have in your inventory (if you have the Silver Harmonica, for example, Reah will ALWAYS be up on the ramparts)... but it may simply be random chance! It's not something I ever really thought about. The only way to find out, I guess... would be to experiment! (:


It would be much more exciting to sneak into Falcom and scrutinize the source code . . . but that could take some time, and hiding in their ventilation ducts every daylight interval would eventually dry out your skin. So, no go, I guess.

If anyone's curious, running into and out of Minea while Feena stood on the dock in Zepik got me both Fana and Archelle talking to Reah (separately) when I entered the city. Fana only seems to say one thing, but running into and out of the stairwell to the ramparts will change Archelle's speech (no discernible pattern) among 4 things: Reah's good at rock-paper-scissors, bad at it, good at word games, or bad at them. He's so fickle.


There's a way to earn 500G once: Find Brody in Lance Village and give him some items (apples, flowers, etc.) until he starts talking about ducks' eating habits. Once that's done, you can visit the ducks in Lance Village and collect 500G from them.

Thanks! I did that and was able to buy a long sword at Level 3. At Level 4, I whacked one of the Rod's guards (so, YES, Strength 29 is actually sufficient to damage them) and got myself magic. Beating Velagunder is indeed possible at Level 4, at least at Normal difficulty. It takes about 3/4 of your magic, assuming you seldom miss, and you'll die in one hit (granted, I had no armor or shield). Depending on how much less damage Velagunder takes per fireball on Hard and Nightmare, it may or may not be impossible to take him down within the capacity of your magic reserves. I'll leave it to someone else to test that. However, you're at least guaranteed to be able to reach him while armed with fire.

Thank you, MP83, and thank you, ducks. Quack quack.

onmode-ky

[MP83]

You're welcome. If you want, you can try your luck with Velagunder on even lower levels, by using this glitch:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEKXCGAMD3w

Video description (by Korzic):


This is a bug in Ys II Eternal/Complete/Chronicles that will make it so you don't have any hit detection, allowing you to move through enemies/NPCs.

Basically, what you need to do is level up at the exact moment an enemy deals a lethal blow to you. If you try this with the "Fire" magic, chances are that the fireball will hit too late, resulting in Adol being locked in his death animation (not an official "game over", even though you can't move - though you can still recover HP, provided you're in the proper area XD).

Anyway, I think this glitch occurs because it's supposed to technically be "game over" (where enemies will walk right over your body, still trying to attack XD), but the level up lets you survive. While this will make it so Adol can pass through enemies/NPCs unharmed, some events will still activate, provided it's not from direct interaction with an NPC (I think - not entirely sure on the details). To get rid of this, just go to a new map screen, and everything will be normal again.

So far, there's only one place I know of that this would be useful - bypassing the rock golems guarding the Staff of Divinity.

[onmode-ky]

You're welcome. If you want, you can try your luck with Velagunder on even lower levels, by using this glitch:


I finally got around to trying this out. Thanks to the glitch, it really is possible to fight Velagunder at Level 2 (impossible at Level 1, since the glitch requires you to level up once)--moreover, it is possible at least at Normal difficulty to beat Velagunder at Level 2. However, it's a tight squeeze making sure you don't first run out of magic. You have to miss his body very, very seldom, for one. Also, once your magic count drops from its 25 MP starting amount to 10 MP remaining, you will start "leaking" small fireballs each time you begin charging a big blast (prior to 10 MP left, this can be avoided by starting the charge process immediately after letting loose a big blast, but it's unavoidable once you're down to 10 MP); don't let any of those leaks go to waste, and make sure they hit his body, too. With very few missed shots (one large fireball hit a claw, one or two small fireballs went wayward), I managed to take down Velagunder with 1 MP left, maybe 2.

I have a new bunch of Ys 1 questions, but I'll save them until after I've beaten the whole game. Maybe they get answered before it ends.

onmode-ky

P.S. It really was kind of strange facing a boss without even being in possession of a short sword.

[Wyrdwad]

I love all these personal challenges people have been giving themselves with Ys I & II. I honestly can't even remember the last game I've seen that happen with. Just goes to show you, truly classic games never die. They just get more exciting with age! ;)

-Tom

[onmode-ky]

I love all these personal challenges people have been giving themselves with Ys I & II. I honestly can't even remember the last game I've seen that happen with. Just goes to show you, truly classic games never die. They just get more exciting with age! ;)

-Tom

Well, gee, I wouldn't say I'm that old, but okay. ;P

What other challenges like this have you seen for Ys I & II? Incidentally, I tried the first boss fight in Ys I at Level 2 back when I had just started the game, and it simply didn't work. It's possible, I guess, but with each bit of damage taking off so much of your life, you'd have to be ridiculously patient and only attack when it's definitely safe to do so; all the waiting would make it take so long as to be a titanic bore (not to be confused with a titanic boar--which I believe I have fought in Ys Seven, come to think of it).

Here's an Ys I question that's kind of self-explanatory: in this picture I stumbled across, why are Adol and the bottom halves of Feena and Reah on the label of this supposed Game Boy Color version of Dragon Quest 9? (bottom row, second from the right) (http://fuji.drillspirits.net/stuff/4gbgames.jpg) The obvious answer: this is the cheapest way to get Feena and Reah topless. ;D

onmode-ky

[Wyrdwad]

Wow... that IS a good question! How bizarre!

And in regards to your other question:


What other challenges like this have you seen for Ys I & II?

No-damage boss runs and speed-runs have been the most notable, but I've heard of a whole lot of different things people have tried.

...Many of them tried by MP83, who posts semi-regularly on this board. (:

-Tom

[Ryos]

Wow... that IS a good question! How bizarre!

I'm betting it's a bootleg cartridge. Those unscrupulous characters don't tend to have much of an issue with putting down all sorts of strange logos and names on games.

[MP83]

No-damage boss runs and speed-runs have been the most notable, but I've heard of a whole lot of different things people have tried.

...Many of them tried by MP83, who posts semi-regularly on this board. (:
I have been noticed! :D

When it comes to Ys I & II, Korzic is the more hardcore one, as you can see from his Ys I Complete speedrun:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-77J5LfQlQ

[onmode-ky]

I'm betting it's a bootleg cartridge. Those unscrupulous characters don't tend to have much of an issue with putting down all sorts of strange logos and names on games.

Er, no need to bet; when I wrote "self-explanatory," I was trying to imply that it was an obvious pirate cart. After all, how else could one make a claim of a port of a DS game to the Game Boy Color (although the game inside is apparently not actually even related to the real Dragon Quest IX)? Certainly it wouldn't come from Square Enix.

onmode-ky

[onmode-ky]

Upon finishing Ys I, I found myself with some questions left unanswered. Do any of these get resolved in Ys II?

- Why does Pim think he's seen the Silver Armor before?
- Where did Dr. Klause and Old Man Franz go? They just sort of disappear forever.
- Is there any reason you can wander throughout Sara's home when she's *ahem* not home?
- Why does Reah say, "Adol, by any chance are you . . . ? Never mind."
- Where do the doors behind the mine statue pedestals lead?

This one is just an observation: Rosetty (seller of swords) says different things depending on what sword you have equipped, but Dios (seller of pieces of armor) only cares about your strongest, most recent shield or armor. Not a case of "like father, like son."

I ended up having to use the manual's walkthrough twice: once to discover that the trees say different things before and after Reah's serenade, and once when I couldn't figure out why Dark Fact's door wouldn't open (I thought the blue crystal was the same thing as the blue amulet). Thanks for that.

Also of interest, I've been watching the Ys anime OVA of late. Has anyone else noticed this interesting detail about the English vs. Japanese audio tracks? There are often different pieces of music playing during the same scene. This seems to happen in certain cases where music is playing while characters are talking. I suspect that maybe what's going on is that some of the soundtrack was no longer available separate from the voice track, so the English audio production staff had to reconstruct the music as best they could. The music is still JDK Ys stuff, and it's often the same basic piece of music, but the arrangements are different; perhaps the reconstruction used JDK CD albums. In some cases, the music is an improvement. An example that comes to mind is a scene where some evil knights attack Adol and Dogi in Rastin ("Laskin") Mine: the original music is an orchestral piece that suddenly stops and leaves noticeably awkward dead air as Adol clashes swords with an enemy. What does the English track use during that scene? "To Make the End of Battle"! It fits much better (yeah, yeah, it's Ys II music in the Ys I story).

Also of note, the English audio is in stereo, while the Japanese is monaural. Thus, even when the music is the same between the two, the English side sounds much more immersive (anyone know if the OVA really was mono in its Japanese releases?). And, the sound effects seem to have been redone completely for the English track, maybe again due to a separate effects track not being available. They're generally much improved, not only because Nygtilger now sounds more like an arthropod than a generic anime bird, but also because the sound mixing in general is superior. Noises and music are now more audible across the board.

Enough rambling!

onmode-ky

[Wyrdwad]

- Why does Reah say, "Adol, by any chance are you . . . ? Never mind."

You know who Reah is, right? (:


- Where do the doors behind the mine statue pedestals lead?

Officially? They lead to the Temple of Solomon in Ys. Or LED there, anyway, back when Ys was still land-bound. (: It's one of those little details I really appreciate them putting in.

You'll see those doors open eventually... just keep at it. (:

-Tom

[onmode-ky]

You know who Reah is, right? (:


Er, I don't see how knowing that explains what she said. I mean, it doesn't seem like she was planning to say, "Are you aware that I'm a goddess?"

So my other questions, they don't have any official or unofficial answers? It's kind of creepy wandering around Sara's big, empty house. Imagine if you slept in her bed.

onmode-ky

P.S. Adol in the English dub of the OVA is voiced by the English voice of Welkin Gunther, and Feena is voiced by the English voice of Neptunia (and also the Japanese voice of crazy Escaflowne pyro, hehe). I kind of get a weird feeling watching the English.

[Wyrdwad]

Good point on Reah's line. (: I don't remember that exact scene off-hand, but maybe she was aware that Feena had a bit of a thing for Adol, and wanted to know if Adol had any involvement with her, but then decided against butting in?

For wandering through Sara's house, I think the real question is, why WOULDN'T you be able to do that? I mean, who's going to stop you? ;)

And for the other two, I'm not really sure. With Dr. Flair and Franz, I can only assume you keep missing them in passing for the rest of the game (not literally, as in you, personally, failed to see them -- but missed them in passing as in, they're "written out" of the story with that as the excuse). And for Pim, I have theories (Pim saw the silver armor while wandering around looking for treasure, Pim saw similar silver armor worn by the black-caped man, etc.), but they're all just guesses.

-Tom

[onmode-ky]

Good point on Reah's line. (: I don't remember that exact scene off-hand, but maybe she was aware that Feena had a bit of a thing for Adol, and wanted to know if Adol had any involvement with her, but then decided against butting in?

Oh, you think she was asking about personal matters, rather than his Grand Destiny as Savior of Ys? Hmm, hadn't seriously considered that. What was the original line, anyway? Something like 「アドル、もしかして、君は、、、いいえ、何でもない。」? Of course, if that were the line, it still wouldn't provide any hints.

Maybe she was just going to ask for a light. To smoke . . . her harmonica?


For wandering through Sara's house, I think the real question is, why WOULDN'T you be able to do that? I mean, who's going to stop you? ;)

Well, you CAN'T do that when she's sitting at her crystal ball, despite the fact that she's not blocking your way through the curtains. And I think you can go through even when that old guy is in there with you to hand you the book; he doesn't try to stop you, despite not being seated at the table like Sara.


And for the other two, I'm not really sure. With Dr. Flair and Franz, I can only assume you keep missing them in passing for the rest of the game (not literally, as in you, personally, failed to see them -- but missed them in passing as in, they're "written out" of the story with that as the excuse). And for Pim, I have theories (Pim saw the silver armor while wandering around looking for treasure, Pim saw similar silver armor worn by the black-caped man, etc.), but they're all just guesses.

It'd be interesting if it turned out that, in the original version of the game, a bug had been responsible for those two no longer appearing. And then, through the years, all subsequent revisits to the story just kept things that way. It sure does seem awful, though, that the entire city's only doctor--also the only doctor for Zepik--vanished forever without even his nurse seeming to care.

As for Pim: so he doesn't have some backstory--other than being a greedy jerk--that's not in the game (like that text in the manual about Dark Fact's parents), I see. It seemed an intriguing possibility for someone like him to actually have had a part in keeping the armor safe, but I guess he's just a plain old greedy jerk.

You know, I'm kind of disappointed that the OVA series didn't answer any of my questions. Oh, well. Did you know that the seiyuu for Adol is actually also the voice of Lodoss War's Parn? He's cornered the market! Totally different, he's also the Japanese voice of Sly Cooper.

onmode-ky

[Wyrdwad]

What was the original line, anyway? Something like 「アドル、もしかして、君は、、、いいえ、何でもない。」? Of course, if that were the line, it still wouldn't provide any hints.

Something very similar to that, yeah.


Well, you CAN'T do that when she's sitting at her crystal ball, despite the fact that she's not blocking your way through the curtains. And I think you can go through even when that old guy is in there with you to hand you the book; he doesn't try to stop you, despite not being seated at the table like Sara.

Hmmm... Is that one of the beds Adol can sleep in, maybe? There are a small number of women's beds throughout the game that, under certain conditions, Adol can push his way into, accompanied by comments like, "You wish this warm feeling would last forever." (: I thought they were all in Ys II, but I kinda seem to remember hearing that Sara's bed may have been one of them...

I dunno. All I can say for sure is that in Ys I & II Eternal Story on the PS2, there actually WAS a definite purpose to being able to explore Sara's house, as there was an item inside on her table that unlocked extra content in the dream-world (a PS2-only addition to the game that was basically a fancy front end for an art and music gallery). (:


You know, I'm kind of disappointed that the OVA series didn't answer any of my questions. Oh, well. Did you know that the seiyuu for Adol is actually also the voice of Lodoss War's Parn? He's cornered the market! Totally different, he's also the Japanese voice of Sly Cooper.

That's pretty cool. I had no idea! But it does make sense. (:

-Tom